19:59 <@jmbsvicetto> so shall we get ready for the meeting?
19:59  * amazingpudding is present 
19:59  * wired here
20:00  * jmbsvicetto is here
20:00 <@Betelgeuse> here
20:01 <@PSYCHO___> Aye
20:01 <@PSYCHO___> Scarabeus
20:01 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb: ^^
20:01 <@jmbsvicetto> I've phoned chainsaw, but he didn't answer
20:02 <@jmbsvicetto> let's give him 5 minutes to show up or we'll start
20:03 <@PSYCHO___> Ok
20:03 -!- jmbsvicetto changed the topic of #gentoo-council to: Next meeting: Now | agenda: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev-announce/msg_1647b68c074c4a0f1521fe10d9a7670a.xml | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/utctolocal.html?time=2000 | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
20:03 <@scarabeus> jup
20:04 <@jmbsvicetto> Does anyone want to address the first 2 points in the agenda? (project Canterbury and Gentoo's restructure)
20:04 <@jmbsvicetto> or can we leave that for next year? ;)
20:04 <@PSYCHO___> Nup
20:04 <@PSYCHO___> Yup
20:05 <@amazingpudding> cb ... good plan, where do we start?
20:05 <@Betelgeuse> jmbsvicetto: Gentoo should have obsoleted Debian and the others by then
20:05 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse: I suppose we can start with the council app
20:05 <@wired> well project canterbury was a success, nuff said :P
20:06 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, it seems chainsaw isn't going to attend, so let's start
20:06 <@Betelgeuse> For the web app we first need to decide if we want one and then what we would like in it
20:06 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse: want to start?
20:06 <@Betelgeuse> If we do it then it will be iterative so that people can offer input all the time
20:06 <@Betelgeuse> jmbsvicetto: already did :)
20:07 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, I don't know what I would use it for, so why should I care about it? What can it do for me / us?
20:07 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: lnk...?
20:07 <@Betelgeuse> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2011/jbartosik/1
20:07 <@Betelgeuse> Is this link public?
20:08 <@wired> it is
20:08 <@ferringb> ugh
20:08 <@ferringb> google needs to lay off the tron/whatever-the-hell-gsoc11-image-uses font
20:09 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: haven't been involved in gsoc this year beyond commenting on proposals; when is the due date?
20:09 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: it was today
20:09 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: for applications
20:09 <@ferringb> presume it's not immutable?
20:09 <@ferringb> *now immutable
20:09 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: the feature set is not set in stone
20:10  * ferringb wants the requirements locked in
20:10 <@ferringb> deliverables w/out requirements makes it hard to evaluate the underlying intent
20:10 <@ferringb> grok?
20:11 <@Betelgeuse> Basically I see at least these as valuable 1) doodle like feature or doodle integration for setting times 2) irc bot for automatic log handling (integrate with some existing software) 3) handling agendas
20:11 <@Betelgeuse> Handling voting is nice too
20:11 <@Betelgeuse> so that you don't ahve to manually count on IRC
20:11 <@wired> i like the idea, mainly for agenda and user submittions
20:11 <@jmbsvicetto> chainsaw should show up in around 25 minutes
20:11 <@wired> submissions even
20:12 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: gentoo has an openid provider service running?
20:12 <@jmbsvicetto> I told him we would try to push any votings to the end
20:12 <@PSYCHO___> Why not bond it ti our ldap
20:12 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse: those 3 sound nice
20:12 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: you can proxy through dev.gentoo.org/~nick
20:12 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: eh
20:12 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: that's what we did for the recruiting app
20:12 <@ferringb> sorry, keyboard's being fucky.  the 'eh' was a gutteral sound intended as a question. ;)
20:13 <@ferringb> what, just verifying dev.gentoo.org/~me/ exists?
20:13 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: check the html source for dev.gentoo.org/~betelgeuse
20:13 <@ferringb> cause that isn't really doing providing ;)
20:13 <@PSYCHO___> Thats brutal :)
20:13 -!- bicatali [~bicatali@gentoo/developer/bicatali] has joined #gentoo-council
20:13 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse: btw, I got the impression that infra might host some django stuff soon. If that happens, django might prove a better choice than RoR
20:14 <@Betelgeuse> jmbsvicetto: jbartosik did the recruiting app with rails last yea
20:14 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: check the source of dev.gentoo.org/~ferringb/
20:14 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: I'm talking about an *actual* openid provider
20:14 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse: yeah, I know last year it was RoR
20:14 <@ferringb> not requiring devs to hack up a local index.html
20:14 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: we don't have that
20:14 <@ferringb> yeah, I know
20:14 <@ferringb> hence the openid login bit is slightly off
20:14 <@ferringb> that infra would have to be built out, bound to ldap
20:14 <@Betelgeuse> it is but I would like infra to do git first
20:14 <@Betelgeuse> :)
20:15 <@ferringb> it's an uncontrolled dep, something of a critical one
20:15 <@jmbsvicetto> so, no objection about seeing what we can get from a council app?
20:15 <@jmbsvicetto> Does anyone want to deal directly with this issue?
20:15 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse: you?
20:15 <@Betelgeuse> Ideally we have a mentor from the council
20:15 <@Betelgeuse> or at least someone closely involved
20:16 <@Betelgeuse> I will at least be doing the libbash project
20:16 <@Betelgeuse> But if there's no other takers then I can do that one too
20:16 <@ferringb> proxy bit doesn't work when a non dev is used
20:17 <@ferringb> although I'llbe damned if I can recall if that's even technically allowed (I'm fairly sure it's occured however)
20:17 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: there were plenty of discussions when someone nominated ciaramn
20:17 <@wired> i find it wrong
20:17 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb: there's no requirement for the proxy to be a dev
20:17 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: "discussion" might be a nice term for those events. ;)
20:18 <@wired> how can anyone take important global-level gentoo decisions and/or vote if they haven't even gone through the recruitment process
20:18 <@ferringb> auth infrastructure there has some issues imo
20:18 <@ferringb> openid makes sense (for allowing non devs to submit things), but requires gentoo infra. to have that sorted for the people who normally submit (council/devs)
20:19 <@wired> ferringb: so we could have openid for users and ldap for devs
20:19 <@Betelgeuse> It's quite easy to switch backends with devise any way
20:20 <@Betelgeuse> So once infra provides something better it should be easy to add
20:20 <@ferringb> but not particularly desirable to try and have differing auths in use
20:20 <@ferringb> especially for someone who is starting out from scratch and doing this sort of thing
20:20 <@ferringb> regardless, the infra/open-id thing I already beat up a bit, so I'll move on
20:20 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: multiauthentication is matter of hours with the library set suggested
20:21 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: And in this case copy paste from one of my projects
20:21 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb / Betelgeuse: perhaps we should discuss details later?
20:21 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: you know what you're doing.
20:21 <@ferringb> as do I
20:21 <@amazingpudding> yes please
20:21 <@jmbsvicetto> for now we should only focus on whether the council app is something we want and or care?
20:21 <@Betelgeuse> So did we agree that let's see what the project produces?
20:22 <@wired> Betelgeuse: yes
20:22 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: one thing I've learned from gsoc is that dev's kind of suck at estimating times for others, since most of the time we've done it already and have a fair amount of experience ;)
20:22 <@ferringb> just is a concern point
20:22 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: well jbartosik wrote the hobo_devise gem :)
20:22 <@jmbsvicetto> seems like there's no objection, so we should pick someone to pursue this issue
20:23 <@jmbsvicetto> so unless someone else steps forward, Betelgeuse will look into it?
20:23 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: eenie meenie.  you get my point :P
20:23 <@Betelgeuse> jmbsvicetto: yes
20:23 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: yes
20:23  * ferringb would like to track it if you don't mind
20:23 <@ferringb> basically being the nagging "what about this, what about that?" voice. ;)
20:23  * ferringb is good at nagging you see
20:23 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: sounds good
20:25 -!- Chainsaw [~chainsaw@gentoo/developer/atheme.member.chainsaw] has joined #gentoo-council
20:25 -!- mode/#gentoo-council [+o Chainsaw] by ChanServ
20:25 <@Chainsaw> I'm here, sorry!
20:25 <@wired> no worries, welcome
20:25 <@Chainsaw> (On a bus right now, will have to disconnect in about 10 minutes when I get to my stop)
20:25 <@Chainsaw> So, where were we?
20:26 <@jmbsvicetto> Chainsaw: we just decided to see what a student has to show us for a council app (GSoC project) and that Betelgeuse and ferringb will work with him
20:27 <@Chainsaw> jmbsvicetto: *nod*
20:27 <@ferringb> modification to roles: betelgeuse is mentoring/whatnot, I'm harassing/watchinvg
20:27 <@ferringb> *watching
20:27 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, so let me talk about the slacking arches topic
20:28 <@Chainsaw> I might be able to get a Mac Mini G4; which would allow me to get my G5 on linux again. (I think PPC64 is among those at risk)
20:28 <@PSYCHO___> Its more you talking and us listening :)
20:28 <@jmbsvicetto> So, I had planned to send another round of emails at the start of this week, but work got in the way
20:28 <@jmbsvicetto> I'm planning to send 3 or 4 mails to the public mls this weekend
20:29 <@jmbsvicetto> So the mails will focus on "hiring people" (to address the lack of people), "automated testing", "statistics" and a revised email about "arch resources"
20:30 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Do you have any requirements / wishes about policies or are you happy in having that wait for the results of the discussions?
20:30 <@Chainsaw> That seems the most productive approach, yes. Trying to address problem instead of trying to revoke status.
20:30 <@Chainsaw> +the
20:30 <@PSYCHO___> we can waut for sure
20:31 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, so that's all I have about this for now
20:31 <@Chainsaw> I feel at least partially responsible for the PPC/PPC64 situation, and will try to do better there.
20:31 <@Chainsaw> My stop is coming up.
20:31 <@Chainsaw> Will reconnect from home.
20:31 <@Chainsaw> ~5 minutes at most.
20:31 <@jmbsvicetto> Is there anything else you want to talk about before we go to bugs?
20:31 -!- Chainsaw [~chainsaw@gentoo/developer/atheme.member.chainsaw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:32 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: I have a particular interest in the automated testing thingy, what are you planning to send in your email regarding that?
20:33 <@jmbsvicetto> I plan to send an email starting a discussion about it but expressing why I care about it, what I envision we could be doing with it and asking for ideas about what to test, how to test and how to get us doing it
20:33 <@jmbsvicetto> s/but/by/
20:33 <@PSYCHO___> i wanted to ask if any of you know about git migration status for gentoo cvs tree not gentoo-x86
20:33 <@ferringb> wrong forum
20:33 <@ferringb> gentoo-scm ml
20:34 <@ferringb> also, use the scarabeus nick please (recall we log this)
20:34 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb: that one has been focusing more on gentoo-x86 than the other trees
20:34 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: thats about the same thing I have in mind, I can help and/or send that mail if you want some help there :)
20:34 <@ferringb> mmm, right.  then the answer is "for existing projects, they can migrate if they want to".  I'm not aware of an infra push to kill cvs in full...
20:34 <@ferringb> same applies for svn
20:35 <@jmbsvicetto> wired: I'll send that email for sure, but all help in the discussion and getting the project help is most welcome
20:35 <@PSYCHO___> if you make my net work i will gladly use the nick but so far i am stuck with droid
20:35 <@jmbsvicetto> sorry, getting the project running*
20:36 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: okie. ive been thinking about this since fosdem but never managed to sit down and write an email about it, i'll definately contribute :)
20:36 -!- Chainsaw [~chainsaw@gentoo/developer/atheme.member.chainsaw] has joined #gentoo-council
20:36 -!- mode/#gentoo-council [+o Chainsaw] by ChanServ
20:36 <@Chainsaw> Right. Back.
20:37 <@jmbsvicetto> so, anything else or should we move to bugs?
20:37 <@Chainsaw> Please proceed.
20:38 <@jmbsvicetto> I have a small issue with my work dns server at the moment, so can one of you please paste the bug numbers?
20:38 <@Betelgeuse> jmbsvicetto: money run out? :)
20:39 <@jmbsvicetto> the dns server seems to be unable to resolve names at times
20:39 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, got resolution working again
20:39 <@jmbsvicetto> I'll paste the bug numbers
20:40 <@jmbsvicetto> bug 234706
20:40 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/234706 "Slacker arches"; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; dberkholz:council
20:40 <@jmbsvicetto> Do we want to add a note to this one about the ongoing work? scarabeus want to do it?
20:41 <@PSYCHO___> why it can wait until we sort it out
20:41 <@PSYCHO___> not much ccs anyway
20:42 <@jmbsvicetto> right, but we might want to add a simple note that the council is working on this
20:42 <@jmbsvicetto> bug 234711
20:42 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/234711 "GLEP 54: scm package version suffix"; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; dberkholz:lu_zero
20:42 <@jmbsvicetto> any reason to keep it open?
20:42 <@jmbsvicetto> bug 237381
20:42 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/237381 "Document appeals process"; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; dberkholz:dberkholz
20:43 <@jmbsvicetto> This one is mine. I'll take care of this until next meeting. I promise
20:43 -!- zmedico [~zmedico@gentoo/developer/zmedico] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20:44 <@jmbsvicetto> So?
20:44 <@jmbsvicetto> opinions?
20:44 <@Chainsaw> I have complete confidence in your ability to resolve it.
20:45 <@wired> +1 on a status update for the slacker bug, 237381 is all yours :)
20:45 <@jmbsvicetto> I meant about bug 234711
20:45 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/234711 "GLEP 54: scm package version suffix"; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; dberkholz:lu_zero
20:46 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: iirc at a past meeting we decided that if 54 ever happens, we'd rather use "live" over "scm"
20:46 <@PSYCHO___> yah what  wired said
20:46 < Calchan>  /win 13
20:46 <@amazingpudding> and flying unicorns instead of pigs
20:47 <@jmbsvicetto> bug 316401 and bug 331987 are on infra side
20:47 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/316401 "Add resolution OBSOLETE"; Bugzilla, General Bugs; ASSI; betelgeuse:bugzilla
20:47 <@wired> other than that update, i'd leave that bug there to remind us that we need to do something about it
20:47 <@jmbsvicetto> right, but is there any reason to keep it open and not close it as WONTFIX?
20:47 <@jmbsvicetto> ok
20:47 <@jmbsvicetto> I'll add a note about the live over scm and let it be
20:48 <@jmbsvicetto> bug 341959
20:48 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/341959 "council changed the waiting period in "eclass removal policy""; Doc Other, Devmanual; REOP; tove:qa
20:48 <@Chainsaw> jmbsvicetto: Seems the best. I doubt 54 will ever make it.
20:48 <@PSYCHO___> devmanual needs update
20:49 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: i'll handle this one
20:49 <@jmbsvicetto> PSYCHO___: anything else? Do you want to track this one?
20:49 <@jmbsvicetto> wired: ok, thanks
20:49 <@jmbsvicetto> the last one is bug 344479
20:49 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/344479 "Slacker point for ferringb"; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; tove:council
20:49 <@PSYCHO___> ook
20:50 <@PSYCHO___> brian was supposed to close it
20:50 <@wired> indeed
20:50 -!- zmedico [~zmedico@gentoo/developer/zmedico] has joined #gentoo-council
20:50 <@wired> ferringb: slacker mark for not hanlding your own bug? :D
20:50 <@wired> handling*
20:52 <@jmbsvicetto> Can any of you find any bug I've missed?
20:52 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: im just kidding, lets give ferringb another chance to handle it
20:52 <@jmbsvicetto> wired: sure
20:53 <@jmbsvicetto> so unless I've missed any bug, we can move forward to next meeting's chair and date
20:54 <@jmbsvicetto> anyone wants to volunteer to be next meeting's chair?
20:54 <@PSYCHO___> i can do it
20:55 <@amazingpudding> can do
20:55 <@jmbsvicetto> which one of you will do it?
20:56 <@amazingpudding> scarabeus is faster
20:56 <@jmbsvicetto> hehe, ok
20:56 <@PSYCHO___> hh
20:56 <@jmbsvicetto> So next meeting date?
20:56 <@jmbsvicetto> what about Friday, 6th of May?
20:56 <@jmbsvicetto> 4 weeks from now
20:56 <@PSYCHO___> ook
20:57 <@amazingpudding> preliminary ok
20:57 <@wired> 6th is fine, although i'd prefer tuesday
20:57 <@PSYCHO___> 20:00
20:57 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse / Chainsaw / ferringb: ^^ 
20:57 <@jmbsvicetto> Do we want to try Tuesday for next meeting? 10th of May?
20:57 <@Betelgeuse> 6th ok
20:58 <@Betelgeuse> 19UTC preferred
20:59 <@wired> no problem for 19utc here
20:59 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb / Chainsaw: ^^
21:00 <@PSYCHO___> ...
21:01 <@Chainsaw> I can do Tuesdays, as long as it's not the first of the month.
21:01 <@jmbsvicetto> shall we discuss the date over email? I'd rather add it to the log / summary
21:01 <@Chainsaw> Would that work for people?
21:01 -!- Zorry [~zorry@gentoo/developer/zorry] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
21:01 <@jmbsvicetto> it works for me. I can do both 6th and 10th (1900 and 2000 UTC)
21:02 <@ferringb> jmbsvicetto: work interuption, pardon
21:02 <@ferringb> as said, noon till 1pm my time (19:00utc) is *way* better than 2000 utc
21:02 <@Chainsaw> 10th is the second Tuesday of the month. Yeah, I can be there.
21:02 <@Chainsaw> And I can make 7pm work.
21:02 <@PSYCHO___> 19:00 is ok
21:02 <@Chainsaw> (It's 8pm my time anyway)
21:02 <@ferringb> PSYCHO___: re: closing that bug, as I mentioned, will leave it up to other folk to sort.
21:03 <@jmbsvicetto> so 1900 UTC? What day?
21:03 <@Chainsaw> jmbsvicetto: Tuesday the 10th of May please.
21:03 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb: ok, I'll take care of that bug then
21:04 <@wired> so, the 10th it is?
21:04 <@ferringb> jmbsvicetto: day doesn't matter to me, 1900 is a hard req now though
21:05 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: I can do 20 if 19 doesn't work
21:05 -!- PSYCHO___ [~AndChat@gentoo/developer/flyingspaghettimonster/scarabeus] has quit [Quit: Bye]
21:05 <@jmbsvicetto> so unless anyone objects in the next 2 minutes, 10th of May, 19000 UTC
21:05  * ferringb can't do 20
21:05 <@ferringb> not without significant interuptions from work
21:05 <@jmbsvicetto> 1900 *
21:07 -!- NeddySeagoon [~NeddySeag@gentoo/developer/NeddySeagoon] has joined #gentoo-council
21:07 <@amazingpudding> i'm in .eu timezone again
21:07 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: two minutes passed ;p
21:07  * Chainsaw raises two thumbs
21:07 <@Chainsaw> (And will try not to be on a bus/train at the time!)
21:08 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, so next meeting 10th of May 1900 UTC
21:08 <@wired> great
21:08 <@jmbsvicetto> All that is left is to open the floor
21:08 <@wired> thanks :)
21:08 <@jmbsvicetto> A public service announcement, there's less than 3 hours left to vote in the foundation election
21:08 <@Chainsaw> I voted!
21:08  * wired voted
21:09 <@jmbsvicetto> if you haven't voted yet, do so ASAP!!
21:09 <@jmbsvicetto> thanks guys for your time
21:09 <@wired> and thank you for chairing
21:09 <@jmbsvicetto> I'm working on the summary and will try to commit it in a bit
21:10 <@jmbsvicetto> Does anyone have any issue that would like to bring to the atttention of the council?
21:10 <@Chainsaw> Thanks for calling jmbsvicetto. Putting your number in my phone now.
21:12 <@jmbsvicetto> Chainsaw: you're welcome
21:20 <@Chainsaw> Anyone for the council open mic night? You can bring a guitar?
21:24 <@amazingpudding> bad idea
21:27 <@jmbsvicetto> http://dpaste.com/530139/ <- any comments / correctiosn ?
21:27 <@jmbsvicetto> corrections*
21:30 <@ferringb> Chainsaw: ukele count?
21:30 <@ferringb> *ukulele
21:30 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: please word wrap :P
21:30 <@wired> gqq :)
21:30 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb: I can bring a portuguese guitar too ;)
21:31 <@ferringb> although I did see a rather entertaining attempt of bohemian rhapsody via ukulele
21:31  * jmbsvicetto closes the meeting
21:31 -!- jmbsvicetto changed the topic of #gentoo-council to: Next meeting: 20110510 1900UTC | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/utctolocal.html?time=1900 | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/