path: root/meeting-logs/20061109.txt

[14:36] <agaffney> 25 minutes?
[14:37] <Flameeyes> 24
[14:37] <kingtaco|laptop> 29 here
[14:37] <Kugelfang> 24
[14:37] <agaffney> kingtaco|laptop: *cough* ntp *cough*
[14:37] <Kugelfang> kingtaco|laptop: fix our hwclock :-P
[14:38] <agaffney> can someone +v me since I'll be speaking for chris today?
[14:38] <kingtaco|laptop> heh, guess I'm going to be 5 minutes late :)
[14:38] --- kingtaco|laptop sets modes [#gentoo-council +v agaffney]
[14:38] --- Kugelfang sets modes [#gentoo-council +o agaffney]
[14:38] <agaffney> Kugelfang: that works too :P
[14:38] <Kugelfang> he's replacement for today, so he should be opped
[14:38] <kingtaco|laptop> hah
[14:38] <kingtaco|laptop> fine
[14:39] <agaffney> what is on the agenda?
[14:39] --- Flameeyes sets modes [#gentoo-council +v wolf31o2]
[14:39] <agaffney> just reply-to and SPF?
[14:39] --- Flameeyes sets modes [#gentoo-council -o wolf31o2]
[14:39] <Flameeyes> then we need to downgrade wolf :P
[14:39] <agaffney> hah
[14:39] <agaffney> owned
[14:39] <kingtaco|laptop> agaffney, and QA
[14:39] <kloeri> update on qa plans
[14:39] * Kugelfang hrms
[14:39] <Kugelfang> spb: are you available?
[14:39] <kingtaco|laptop> there will b e a bugs update too
[14:39] <Flameeyes> anybody heard from curtis in the last months btw?
[14:39] <Kugelfang> nope
[14:40] <agaffney> Flameeyes: not that I'm aware of
[14:40] * Flameeyes sighs
[14:40] <kloeri> Flameeyes: nope, a few people are trying to track him down though
[14:40] <agaffney> he seems to have completely disappeared 6+ weeks ago
[14:40] <agaffney> his IRC session was idle for 3+ weeks before it got disconnected
[14:40] <agaffney> and he's not been back
[14:40] <agaffney> not responding to email
[14:40] <agaffney> he's probably in a ditch somewhere :/
[14:40] <Flameeyes> kloeri, what about giving RFID tags to developers?
[14:40] <agaffney> heh
[14:40] <kloeri> amne and christel are both doing what they can to find out what's up
[14:40] <kingtaco|laptop> agaffney, someone in devrel has his phone number
[14:40] <agaffney> like they do with dogs? :P
[14:41] <agaffney> kingtaco|laptop: have they tried to call him?
[14:41] <kingtaco|laptop> Flameeyes, 1984
[14:41] <kingtaco|laptop> agaffney, probably... they are concerned where he went
[14:41] <kloeri> Flameeyes: good idea.. and a few satelites sensitive enough to read the tags :p
[14:41] <Flameeyes> kingtaco|laptop, that's older than me
[14:41] <kloeri> agaffney: don't think anybody have his number
[14:41] <kingtaco|laptop> Flameeyes, really???
[14:41] <Flameeyes> kloeri, yes, use foundation's money for that ;)
[14:41] <kingtaco|laptop> Flameeyes, god, I feel old then
[14:42] <kloeri> kingtaco|laptop: afaik, yes
[14:42] <Flameeyes> kingtaco|laptop, yeah, I'll be 21 at the end of the month :P
[14:42] * kingtaco|laptop checks into an old folks home
[14:43] * agaffney was born in '84
[14:43] * Kugelfang is getting 24 start of next month..
[14:43] <kingtaco|laptop> hahah
[14:43] * agaffney is 22 for anyone too lazy to do the math :P
[14:44] <Flameeyes> so I suppose that asking for news about the redesign this month is basically pointless
[14:44] <kingtaco|laptop> Flameeyes, absolutly pointless
[14:44] <kingtaco|laptop> I don't have any idea about it and I doubt robbat2|na does
[14:45] * kloeri will be 32 at the end of the month
[14:45] <Kugelfang> OOOLD!
[14:45] <kingtaco|laptop> kloeri, I'll put your name on the list for the old folks home
[14:45] <kloeri> heh
[14:45] <kloeri> kingtaco|laptop: thanks, I can hardly manage writing my name anymore due to old age :)
[14:46] <kingtaco|laptop> kloeri, I'm suprised you're not in adult dipers yet
[14:46] <kingtaco|laptop> I mean 32
[14:46] <kingtaco|laptop> jeez
[14:46] <kingtaco|laptop> :p
[14:46] <kloeri> can't figure out how they work.. I'm not really that technically minded :p
[14:46] <kloeri> tricky stuff, those adult diapers
[14:47] <kingtaco|laptop> I'm pretty sure they work the same as other diapers...
[14:47] <kingtaco|laptop> I mean, how many possible ways are there....
[14:47] <kingtaco|laptop> hahah, gentoo has surely gone down the toilet today
[14:47] <agaffney> today? :P
[14:48] <kingtaco|laptop> hehe
[14:48] <SpanKY> i just read that book, was pretty good
[14:48] <SpanKY> that and Fahrenheit 451
[14:48] <kingtaco|laptop> which, 1984?
[14:48] <Flameeyes> SpanKY, "Gone down the toilet"?
[14:48] <kingtaco|laptop> ah
[14:48] <kingtaco|laptop> both are very good books
[14:48] <Flameeyes> SpanKY, yeah fahrenheit 451 is a great book
[14:48] <kingtaco|laptop> SpanKY, you should try to find a copy of "brave new world"
[14:49] <kingtaco|laptop> that's another fun classic
[14:49] <Kugelfang> Fahrenheit 451 is cool
[14:49] <wolf31o2> heh
[14:49] <Flameeyes> wolf31o2, what are you doing here? :P weren't you away? :P
[14:50] --- robbat2|na is now known as robbat2
[14:50] <wolf31o2> Flameeyes: no... I'm *leaving* in like 5-10 minutes for my CISSP classes...
[14:50] <Flameeyes> wolf31o2, I'm afraid to ask what CISSP is
[14:50] <wolf31o2> which is why I appointed a proxy... since I know I won't be here for the whole meeting
[14:50] <SpanKY> i just pick random books from here to read: http://books.google.com/googlebooks/banned/
[14:50] <wolf31o2> Certified Information Systems Security Professional
[14:50] <kingtaco|laptop> hahah
[14:51] <agaffney> SpanKY: both are good books. the movie for F451 was *horrible* :P
[14:51] <robbat2> morning
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[14:51] <Flameeyes> agaffney, like almost every movie coming from a book
[14:51] <agaffney> Flameeyes: well, it was even worse because it was the 70s and british :P
[14:52] <agaffney> it was so bad it was comical
[14:52] <Flameeyes> agaffney, the only thing I liked, taken from a book, was the Dune mini-series
[14:52] <kingtaco|laptop> heh, I've read most of those books
[14:52] <Flameeyes> not the '80s film with sting of course
[14:52] <agaffney> Flameeyes: the 2000 Dune mini-series kicked serious ass
[14:52] <agaffney> the original Dune movie sucked goat nuts
[14:52] <Flameeyes> agaffney, yeah
[14:53] <agaffney> and oddly, I've got the first Dune book on my desk right now :P
[14:53] <Flameeyes> I still have to watch the children of dune mini-series
[14:53] <agaffney> reading through the series for the 4th or 5th time
[14:53] <Kugelfang> agaffney: i got them all in german and in english
[14:53] <agaffney> Flameeyes: I caught part of it, but it wasn't very good
[14:53] <Kugelfang> agaffney: and the english one, i got as hardcover and pocketbooks
[14:53] <Flameeyes> I have the original dune books in the shelf at my left
[14:53] <agaffney> SciFi spent their entire year's movie budget on the Dune miniseries
[14:53] <Flameeyes> wow that's a lot
[14:53] <agaffney> and it was well worth it
[14:53] <Kugelfang> well spent
[14:53] <agaffney> *damn* good
[14:53] <agaffney> for children of dune, they did it like any other mini-series
[14:54] <Flameeyes> -7
[14:54] * agaffney will probably stop reading after book 4 or 5 this time
[14:54] <Flameeyes> I should try to look for herber's son's books... but I doubt they'll be at the same level of the father's
[14:54] <Kugelfang> it's just sad that herbert didn't finish the last part
[14:55] <Kugelfang> Flameeyes: they aren't
[14:55] <agaffney> God Emperor is really the last good book
[14:55] <agaffney> didn't his son write a book on the Butlerian Jihad?
[14:55] <Kugelfang> Flameeyes: i got them all, and i only read them once
[14:55] <Kugelfang> agaffney: 6 books
[14:55] <agaffney> o_O
[14:55] <Kugelfang> agaffney: 6 prequels to Dune
[14:55] <Flameeyes> Kugelfang, well, lately I haven't been able to re-read any book :| got a lot of new ones to read
[14:55] <agaffney> I need to get some new ones
[14:55] <Kugelfang> agaffney: 3 short before dune, 3 in the time of Butler's Jihad
[14:56] <agaffney> I keep re-reading Dune, Wheel of Time, and Harry Potter series :P
[14:56] <SpanKY> i should read a clockwork orange
[14:56] <SpanKY> i lubz the book
[14:56] <SpanKY> agaffney: why would you re-read wheel of time ... once was painful enough
[14:56] <Flameeyes> agaffney, you fell with the third title :P
[14:56] * Flameeyes still has to finish the eye of the world
[14:56] <kingtaco|laptop> of mice and men
[14:56] <agaffney> SpanKY: because eventually they'll get to the last battle :P
[14:56] <kingtaco|laptop> I can't believe that's banned
[14:56] <kingtaco|laptop> I red that in 4th grade or something
[14:56] <kingtaco|laptop> *read
[14:57] <agaffney> apparently it was instead of learning how to spell ;)
[14:57] <Flameeyes> kingtaco|laptop, for non-usians what's 4th grade? :P
[14:57] <kingtaco|laptop> Flameeyes, I was 8
[14:57] <agaffney> Flameeyes: 9-10 years old
[14:57] <Flameeyes> kingtaco|laptop, okay :)
[14:57] * agaffney runs to refill his water bottle
[14:57] <kingtaco|laptop> banned for "vulgarity"
[14:58] <kingtaco|laptop> I think it has the word "damn" in it
[14:58] <kingtaco|laptop> ZOMG!!1111
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[15:01] --> bonsaikitten (n=pal@gentoo/user/bonsaikitten) has joined #gentoo-council
[15:01] <kingtaco|laptop> ok, we starting this shindig?
[15:01] --- kingtaco|laptop sets modes [#gentoo-council +m]
[15:02] <Kugelfang> sure
[15:02] <Flameeyes> ready to rumble
[15:02] <kingtaco|laptop> ok, whos the logger this month?
[15:02] <kloeri> me?
[15:02] <Kugelfang> i propose kloeri
[15:02] <kingtaco|laptop> ok
[15:02] <kingtaco|laptop> done
[15:02] <robbat2> ok
[15:02] <kingtaco|laptop> who's here
[15:02] * Kugelfang 
[15:02] * robbat2 robbat2
[15:02] * agaffney raises his hand with his wolf31o2 mask on
[15:02] * kingtaco|laptop kingtaco
[15:03] * Flameeyes is here and is logging as usual
[15:03] <Kugelfang> vapier: stop hiding
[15:03] * kingtaco|laptop pokes spanky with a stick
[15:03] <SpanKY> reading books
[15:03] <kloeri> heh
[15:03] <agaffney> he was just here :P
[15:03] * agaffney throw his copy of Dune at SpanKY
[15:03] <kingtaco|laptop> ok
[15:03] <kingtaco|laptop> topics for today
[15:03] <Kugelfang> so, let's discuss Reply-To and SPF first please
[15:03] <kingtaco|laptop> 1.  spf
[15:03] <kingtaco|laptop> 2.  reply-to
[15:04] <kingtaco|laptop> 3. QA
[15:04] <Kugelfang> i'd like to have reply-to first
[15:04] <Kugelfang> if nobody objects
[15:04] <kingtaco|laptop> 4.  bugs
[15:04] <kingtaco|laptop> anytthing else?
[15:04] <kingtaco|laptop> Kugelfang, sure
[15:04] <Flameeyes> Kugelfang, start then
[15:04] <kingtaco|laptop> aight
[15:04] <kingtaco|laptop> Kugelfang, go for it
[15:04] <Kugelfang> ok, Reply-TO:
[15:05] <Kugelfang> some people want to switch -core ML to add a reply-to filed to the mail header
[15:05] <Kugelfang> others just want to make all mailing lists show the same behaviour
[15:05] <Kugelfang> i say: get a new mail client or use the procmail recipes that wolf posted to gentoo-dev ML
[15:05] <kingtaco|laptop> my position is that it's been posted for both procmail and maildrop the way for a person to configure it to either preference
[15:05] <Kugelfang> exactly
[15:05] <kingtaco|laptop> I don't see any reason to change
[15:06] <Kugelfang> this is why i want to immediately vote on this
[15:06] <kingtaco|laptop> anyone else?
[15:06] <kloeri> I just committed a reply-to-list plugin for thunderbird-2 yesterday
[15:06] <kingtaco|laptop> and there you go
[15:06] <Kugelfang> excellent
[15:06] <kingtaco|laptop> yet another way
[15:06] <agaffney> it would be nice for all the lists to behave the same, but the behavior can be changed with procmail
[15:06] <Flameeyes> for me it's fine as it is, if the mail clients aren't good enough, just improve them
[15:06] <Kugelfang> vote: DonÄ't change reply-to for gentoo-core or any other mailing list
[15:06] <agaffney> so it's really a non-issue
[15:06] <kloeri> so we're not touching thunderbird itself but still fixing the client :)
[15:06] * Kugelfang votes yes
[15:06] * kingtaco|laptop yes
[15:06] * kloeri votes yes
[15:06] * robbat2 yes
[15:06] * Flameeyes yes
[15:06] * agaffney yes
[15:07] <SpanKY> umm clarify "dont change"
[15:07] <Kugelfang> SpanKY: you'r elagging
[15:07] <Flameeyes> SpanKY?
[15:07] <kingtaco|laptop> SpanKY, no change
[15:07] <Kugelfang> SpanKY: don't change from what it's currently doing
[15:07] <SpanKY> "dont change existing behavior for any lists"
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[15:07] <kloeri> no header munging
[15:07] <kingtaco|laptop> yea
[15:07] <Kugelfang> precisely
[15:07] <SpanKY> we're doing header munging now
[15:07] <SpanKY> for all non-core lists
[15:07] <kloeri> not on -core
[15:07] <kloeri> yes
[15:07] <Kugelfang> correct...
[15:08] <Kugelfang> i think this is a non-issue
[15:08] <SpanKY> so "dont change" could mean "dont set Reply-To on non-core lists"
[15:08] <Kugelfang> no
[15:08] <SpanKY> if you're going with "dont change existing behavior" then whatever, that's fine
[15:08] <Flameeyes> don't change the behaviour from the current one
[15:08] <kingtaco|laptop> on any list
[15:08] <agaffney> SpanKY: "don't change" means "leave everything alone"
[15:08] <Flameeyes> I'd suggest also to update the documentation on the dev handbook
[15:08] <kingtaco|laptop> ok
[15:08] <Flameeyes> so that new devs can see the way to change -core behaviour through procmail
[15:08] <kingtaco|laptop> so we're not changing behavior
[15:08] <SpanKY> seems lame that everything acts the same but one list, but ive personally never had a problem and i dont use rules
[15:08] <Kugelfang> i'm sorry that my vote request was not precise
[15:08] <Flameeyes> kloeri, devrel handles that?
[15:09] <kloeri> Flameeyes: sure
[15:09] <kingtaco|laptop> I would like one thing though, someone write up a doc explaining how to change it to your preference
[15:09] <Flameeyes> kloeri, can you make it so? :)
[15:09] <Kugelfang> ok, next try.
[15:09] <Flameeyes> kingtaco|laptop, that's what I said :P
[15:09] --> NeddySeagoon (n=NeddySea@gentoo/developer/NeddySeagoon) has joined #gentoo-council
[15:09] <kloeri> I think I just volunteered..
[15:09] <kingtaco|laptop> Flameeyes, ah, I missed that
[15:09] <kingtaco|laptop> ok, next issue
[15:09] <Flameeyes> kloeri, perfect
[15:09] <Flameeyes> spf then
[15:09] <kingtaco|laptop> Kugelfang, spf?
[15:09] <Kugelfang> Don't change the current behaviour of reply-to munging for all gentoo mailing lists, including gentoo-core
[15:10] <Kugelfang> did we agree on that?
[15:10] <kloeri> Kugelfang: yes
[15:10] <Flameeyes> Kugelfang, yes
[15:10] <agaffney> I believe so
[15:10] <Kugelfang> good
[15:10] <kingtaco|laptop> yes
[15:10] <Kugelfang> SPF:
[15:10] <Kugelfang> for the first, i'd like to voice kurt, if he's available
[15:10] <robbat2> err, I didn't see a final vote from spanky
[15:10] <Kugelfang> @SpanKY> if you're going with "dont change existing behavior" then whatever, that's fine
[15:10] <kingtaco|laptop> robbat2, "thats fine"
[15:10] <robbat2> ok
[15:10] <Flameeyes> robbat2, he said he's fine, although he's hardly needed to confirm his own vote at this point :P
[15:11] <Kugelfang> hm, kurt's not here
[15:11] <kingtaco|laptop> Kugelfang, I've invited
[15:11] <kingtaco|laptop> lets see if he's here
[15:11] <kingtaco|laptop> wanna make it last?
[15:11] <Kugelfang> hmm
[15:11] <Flameeyes> fine by me
[15:11] <agaffney> he's active
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[15:11] <kingtaco|laptop> ok
[15:11] <SpanKY> do we need him to state anything else
[15:11] --- kingtaco|laptop sets modes [#gentoo-council +v klieber]
[15:11] <SpanKY> he's already posted enough info
[15:11] --- Kugelfang sets modes [#gentoo-council +v kingtaco|laptop]
[15:11] <Kugelfang> ups
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[15:12] <SpanKY> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/infrastructure/spf.xml
[15:12] <Kugelfang> SpanKY: i got a question
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[15:12] <Kugelfang> klieber: hi, thanks for joining
[15:12] <klieber> 'lo
[15:12] <Kugelfang> klieber: i got one question regarding to our current setup
[15:12] <agaffney> klieber: did you state how you got the mail sent from your gmail with your @gentoo.org in From: to give *negative* score in SA?
[15:12] <klieber> agaffney: because it was sent via a valid MX for that domain.
[15:13] <klieber> via the return-path
[15:13] <robbat2> valid MX for the domain in the return path
[15:13] <Kugelfang> klieber: why do we use the TXT record still, though there has been an SPF record added to DNS?
[15:13] <klieber> Kugelfang: the SPF record is a TXT record
[15:13] <Kugelfang> klieber: not according to the RFC
[15:13] <klieber> that's what you put in DNS -- a TXT record (vs. A or MX)
[15:13] <Kugelfang> klieber: it says for servers that don'T support it, you can use TXT
[15:14] <Kugelfang> klieber: for other, you should use SPF
[15:14] <klieber> 1 sec
[15:14] <Kugelfang> sure
[15:14] <klieber> I'm at work now
[15:14] <SpanKY> is that really relevant to the issue at hand ?
[15:14] <kingtaco|laptop> I don't think so
[15:14] <agaffney> no
[15:14] <kingtaco|laptop> Kugelfang, I think the debate is to use ?all *all or not publish spf
[15:15] <wolf31o2> ok guys... I'm out
[15:15] <Kugelfang> *shrug*, i just wanted to be covers for any decission that could come up
[15:15] <-- wolf31o2 has quit ("Leaving")
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[15:15] --- ChanServ sets modes [#gentoo-council +o wolf31o2|work]
[15:15] <klieber> http://www.openspf.org/dns.html <-- that says use txt.
[15:15] <klieber> so if there is an SPF record, it's news to me
[15:15] <kingtaco|laptop> Kugelfang, how does the dns type matter though?
[15:15] <agaffney> klieber: in my current setup (at home and at work), I have my @g.o address set as an identity and send out through the local mail server. how would I set this up to get a negative score in SA?
[15:15] <Kugelfang> kingtaco|laptop: well, i can discuss it with klieber later on
[15:15] <agaffney> I bet most people's setups are closet to mine than your gmail example
[15:16] <agaffney> *closer
[15:16] <klieber> guys, i have a meeting -- I have to go.  sorry.
[15:16] <Kugelfang> kingtaco|laptop: it was one of the points that critics bring up in regard to SPF
[15:16] <klieber> agaffney: don't forge return-path, you won't piss off SPF.  thats the bottom line.
[15:16] <SpanKY> thx klieber 
[15:16] <kingtaco|laptop> Kugelfang, I don't see how it applies though
[15:16] * klieber vanishes
[15:16] <kingtaco|laptop> thanks klieber
[15:16] <Flameeyes> agaffney, is the mail server authenticated or open?
[15:16] <SpanKY> brb, FYI i vote in favor of keeping SPF as is
[15:16] <agaffney> it only relays to internal IPs
[15:17] <Flameeyes> authenticated mail servers usually just rewrite the Return-Path with the actual user used
[15:17] <kingtaco|laptop> guys, can we agree that someone(infra?) will document how to use a 3rd party email server with spf?
[15:17] <Flameeyes> [gmail for instance]
[15:17] <agaffney> kingtaco|laptop: that would certainly be one solution
[15:17] <kingtaco|laptop> so we don't end up spending an hour figuring it out :)
[15:17] <Flameeyes> kingtaco|laptop, that would be useful, yes
[15:17] <kingtaco|laptop> anyone oppose?
[15:17] <Flameeyes> kingtaco|laptop, and also update the documentation about the use of the gentoo ssmtp server
[15:17] <agaffney> with examples for all major MTAs (postfix, exim, qmail, etc.)
[15:18] <kloeri> documentation on using third party and gentoo ssmtp server would solve it imo
[15:18] <Flameeyes> kloeri, same for me
[15:18] <kingtaco|laptop> ok, vote: infra updates smtp docs and adds docs about howto use spf.  spf stays the same, and if it's needed we're revisit
[15:18] <kingtaco|laptop> *we'll
[15:18] <Flameeyes> s/we're/we'll/ i suppose?
[15:18] <kloeri> kingtaco|laptop: wfm
[15:18] --- kingtaco|laptop has changed the topic to: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council | Last log : http://www.gentoeso.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20060914.txt | meeting @ Nov 9th 2000UTC
[15:19] <Flameeyes> yes for me too
[15:19] * kingtaco|laptop yes
[15:19] <agaffney> yes, but it needs to be in a timely fashion
[15:19] <Kugelfang> klieber: see RFC4408, Section 3.1.1
[15:19] <kingtaco|laptop> agaffney, a month
[15:19] <agaffney> kingtaco|laptop: WFM
[15:19] <kingtaco|laptop> next council meeting
[15:19] <robbat2> works for me
[15:19] * Kugelfang votes yes
[15:19] <kingtaco|laptop> SpanKY?
[15:19] <agaffney> proper docs by the next meeting or SPF goes?
[15:19] <agaffney> or atleast it gets "revisited" :P
[15:20] <kloeri> proper docs
[15:20] <kingtaco|laptop> agaffney, not really, it'll be reviewed
[15:20] <SpanKY> [15:16] <SpanKY> brb, FYI i vote in favor of keeping SPF as is
[15:20] <kingtaco|laptop> heh
[15:20] <kingtaco|laptop> ok
[15:20] <kingtaco|laptop> ok
[15:20] <kingtaco|laptop> next topic then
[15:20] <kingtaco|laptop> robbat2, wanna update us on bugs?
[15:21] <robbat2> kingtaco|laptop, go play with bugstest.g.o folks
[15:21] <robbat2> it's up
[15:21] <kingtaco|laptop> robbat2, in "final" configuration?
[15:21] <robbat2> i'm happy with the db stuff, but I think the web needs more tuning
[15:21] <Kugelfang> yay
[15:21] <kingtaco|laptop> ok
[15:21] <kingtaco|laptop> any questions?
[15:21] <Flameeyes> robbat2, do you have a timeframe?
[15:21] <agaffney> what are some queries that would typically bring down the existing setup?
[15:21] --- kingtaco|laptop sets modes [#gentoo-council +v spb]
[15:21] <Kugelfang> robbat2: is jforman going to administrate it any further?
[15:22] <Kugelfang> robbat2: just informational :-)
[15:22] <kingtaco|laptop> Kugelfang, I'd think so
[15:22] <kloeri> agaffney: "all kernel"
[15:22] <robbat2> agaffney, 'ALL kernel' and 'ALL gentoo'
[15:22] <kingtaco|laptop> all e
[15:22] <Flameeyes> "ALL R"
[15:22] <robbat2> Flameeyes, I don't have a timeframe
[15:22] <kloeri> agaffney: queries returning insane amounts of results generally
[15:22] <Kugelfang> querying ALL kernel
[15:22] <Kugelfang> right now
[15:22] * Flameeyes querying ALL R
[15:22] <kingtaco|laptop> Flameeyes, depends on how well the test goes
[15:23] <robbat2> ALL kernel is 36k results
[15:23] <kingtaco|laptop> no bugs?  we'll consider moving after a couple weeks of testing
[15:23] <Flameeyes> kingtaco|laptop, supposed so, but a question had to be done
[15:23] <kloeri> ALL R is some 146k results iirc
[15:23] <SpanKY> so who do i have to talk to in order to get bug regressions actually fixed
[15:23] <SpanKY> filing bugs in bugzilla doesnt work
[15:23] <Flameeyes> so a parallel ALL R and All amarok had the second return bugs with a decent timing
[15:23] <SpanKY> i have no problem doing the work myself
[15:23] <Kugelfang> ALL Kernel still hasn't finished :-P
[15:23] <robbat2> SpanKY, email me if you have a regression on bugstest
[15:24] <agaffney> I'm still waiting for a return on "ALL kernel" after 2-3 minutes
[15:24] <Flameeyes> uhm
[15:24] <Kugelfang> ah, mine just returend
[15:24] <Flameeyes> the results for ALL amarok are mixed with bugs that has nothing to do with amarok
[15:24] <SpanKY> robbat2: i'm talking user experience, not db load
[15:24] <kingtaco|laptop> agaffney, it'll take ~5 minutes to start returning results
[15:24] <SpanKY> robbat2: things like default search values, css fixups, etc...
[15:24] <kloeri> Flameeyes: sure amarok isn't in a comment?
[15:24] <Flameeyes> kloeri, not sure, will check now
[15:25] <Flameeyes> yeah it's in comments
[15:25] <kloeri> ALL searches subject + comments
[15:25] <Flameeyes> is this a new thing?
[15:25] <robbat2> jforman has said he doesn't have much time at all, so I'm doing my best with all issues for bugstest at the moment
[15:25] <agaffney> ok, firefox is gobbling up memory like a mofo
[15:25] <kloeri> nope
[15:25] <Flameeyes> kloeri, used to check just subject
[15:25] <agaffney> so it must be trying to dispaly the results
[15:25] <Kugelfang> agaffney: use konqueror :-P
[15:25] <kloeri> agaffney: yeah, I pretty much killed my laptop yesterday with "ALL R" :)
[15:25] <kingtaco|laptop> agaffney, oh yeah, it's some GB of html :)
[15:25] <agaffney> there we go
[15:25] <SpanKY> robbat2: i know jforman doesnt have time, but when i've asked to help, i havent gotten any response
[15:25] <agaffney> 36k for ALL kernel
[15:26] <Kugelfang> kloeri: the correct query is 'ALL dev-lang/R'
[15:26] <Flameeyes> kloeri, bugs.gentoo.org shows only for subjet, not comments
[15:26] <Flameeyes> [which is good
[15:26] <Flameeyes> because it asctually gives _decent_ results
[15:26] <Flameeyes> in comments we have useflags that will make such a search request pointless
[15:26] <kloeri> Kugelfang: no, I wanted ALL R because we we're trying to push bugstest as much as possible
[15:26] <kingtaco|laptop> ok, so we're all good on bugs?
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[15:26] <robbat2> ok, so I should change the 'ALL' search to only search summaries
[15:26] <Flameeyes> ALL R returning data now
[15:26] <Kugelfang> kloeri: :-P
[15:26] <Flameeyes> robbat2, would be appreciated, yes
[15:26] <agaffney> robbat2: what's different about the bugstest setup?
[15:27] <robbat2> agaffney, dual database backend, and I've gotten the searching stuff totally parallized between the two databases
[15:27] <robbat2> one sec, i'll give you a cheesy diagram
[15:28] <Kugelfang> hmm, cheese
[15:28] <kingtaco|laptop> can we move this to the open discussion?
[15:28] <robbat2> Slave1 <--- (DB1 <--> DB2) --> Slave2
[15:28] <robbat2> sure
[15:28] <kingtaco|laptop> kk
[15:28] <agaffney> did we forget about QA?
[15:28] <Kugelfang> no
[15:28] <kingtaco|laptop> that's next
[15:28] <Kugelfang> agaffney: that's comming now
[15:28] <SpanKY> i thought the last two items were pretty much open discussion
[15:28] <agaffney> ah
[15:28] <Kugelfang> spb: ping?
[15:28] <Flameeyes> qa issues, kloeri want to talk?
[15:29] <kingtaco|laptop> spb, consider yourself poked
[15:29] <kingtaco|laptop> SpanKY, pretty much
[15:29] <kloeri> yup, I'll give a quick update on QA and hopefully spb will be around to answer questions
[15:29] <kingtaco|laptop> SpanKY, I'll -m in a minute
[15:30] <agaffney> robbat2: can I pick your brain about that setup in a little while?
[15:30] <robbat2> agaffney, yeah
[15:30] <robbat2> find me in -infra about it
[15:30] <kloeri> as soon as spb manage to free up some time he wants to start work on EAPI-0 and package manager specification documents
[15:30] <kloeri> that's the big stuff more or less
[15:30] <kingtaco|laptop> when will he "have time"?
[15:31] <Kugelfang> i guess that means real life issues?
[15:31] <kingtaco|laptop> having guidelines will help avoid a lot of the fighting that goes one
[15:31] <kingtaco|laptop> *on
[15:31] <kloeri> smaller items includes working on implementing GLEP 48, doing more automated QA scans and going through all the QA team members and seeing who wants to do what etc.
[15:31] <kloeri> Kugelfang: he's busy with finishing university currently
[15:31] <Kugelfang> ah, i see
[15:32] <agaffney> school is overrated
[15:32] <Kugelfang> that surely has priorit y:-)
[15:32] <Kugelfang> agaffney: pfff
[15:32] <kingtaco|laptop> ok, so I guess we will need to revisit again next month?
[15:32] <Kugelfang> probably
[15:32] <kloeri> as for when he'll have time I can't answer that
[15:32] <kingtaco|laptop> kloeri, any other info?
[15:33] <Kugelfang> is there anything to vote one? or can i get back to the birthday party upstairs? :-P
[15:33] <kingtaco|laptop> just open discussion now I think
[15:33] <kingtaco|laptop> anyone have any other issues?
[15:33] <Kugelfang> coolies....
[15:33] <kingtaco|laptop> before open floor?
[15:33] <Kugelfang> i certainly don't
[15:33] * agaffney has an issue with the fact he wasn't invited to the birthday parts upstairs
[15:33] <agaffney> *party
[15:33] <Kugelfang> that was a quick thing
[15:33] <kloeri> I asked him who's going to work on EAPI-0 and PMS and he said QA would be in charge but that interested parties were free to submit docs, patches etc.
[15:33] <Kugelfang> agaffney: :-P
[15:33] <agaffney> Kugelfang: save me cake!
[15:34] <Kugelfang> ah, right, the location of preliminary EAPI-0:
[15:34] <Flameeyes> err sorry had problems with the ALL r results
[15:34] <kloeri> some paludis people are very interested and portage team and ferringb have expressed interest in helping as well
[15:34] <Kugelfang> svn.pioto.org
[15:34] <kingtaco|laptop> aight
[15:34] <kloeri> Kugelfang: that's something we need to figure out later I think
[15:34] <Kugelfang> svn:// works, so people can do nice patches, too :-)
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[15:35] <Kugelfang> kloeri: as it is svn, it can easily be migrated later on
[15:35] --- kingtaco|laptop sets modes [#gentoo-council -m]
[15:35] <kingtaco|laptop> aight, open floor
[15:35] <kloeri> there's some !gentoo devs that could be quite valuable helping with the EAPI / PSM documentation but that raises the whole debate about things not being on gentoo infra again
[15:35] <Kugelfang> http://svn.pioto.org/viewvc/paludis/scratch/eapispec/
[15:35] <kloeri> maybe we could use overlays.g.o for that
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[15:35] --- agaffney sets modes [#gentoo-council -o agaffney]
[15:35] <kingtaco|laptop> kloeri, I think we addressed that, for it to be "official" it has to be on gentoo hardware
[15:35] <kloeri> kingtaco|laptop: indeed
[15:35] <Kugelfang> kloeri: or we can use this until it has at least a 'draft' status, no?
[15:35] <Kugelfang> kloeri: besides, this is very open
[15:36] <kingtaco|laptop> devmanual set prescedence
[15:36] <Kugelfang> kloeri: pioto has his thumb on the repo
[15:36] <kloeri> overlays.g.o could probably be a middle ground as it's official gentoo infra and "outsiders" can get access as well
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[15:37] <kloeri> anyway, I don't believe documentation is very far at all atm so it's probably something we need to get back to later when something materializes
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[15:37] <Kugelfang> so we can open the floor now?
[15:37] <kingtaco|laptop> I did
[15:38] <Kugelfang> ah, up there
[15:38] <Kugelfang> *nod*
[15:38] <kingtaco|laptop> people, speak now or wait another month!
[15:38] <ferringb> boobies!
[15:38] <Kugelfang> ...
[15:38] <kingtaco|laptop> heh
[15:38] <ferringb> :)
[15:38] <Flameeyes> if wolf31o2 was here I would ask about the icons but .. next month :P
[15:39] <robbat2> anybody in the audience have questions etc?
[15:39] <robbat2> or can we all pack up and go home?
[15:39] <tove> robbat2: the tree signing?
[15:40] <robbat2> tove: I haven't touched for the last few weeks while working on anoncvs and bugstest, sorry
[15:41] <nightmorph|amd64> (from the floor) so, if i understand it correctly, the posted workarounds for the reply-to cruft will be added to the devmanual?
[15:41] <Flameeyes> the colour of the soft icecream machine?
[15:41] <Flameeyes> nightmorph|amd64, I'd rather say dev handbook than devmanual, as it's not a "technical" view
[15:42] <kingtaco|laptop> nightmorph|amd64, it will be documented
[15:42] <nightmorph|amd64> ah yes, i meant the handbook
[15:42] <ferringb> sidenote related to eapi=0...
[15:42] <nightmorph|amd64> fantabulous! i knew i voted for the council for this reason :)
[15:42] <ferringb> bug 152127
[15:42] <kloeri> yes, I stupidly volunteered to document that :)
[15:42] <kingtaco|laptop> kloeri, someone else already did the work, you just gotta xml it and commit
[15:43] <agaffney> Flameeyes: what icons?
[15:43] <kloeri> kingtaco|laptop: yeah, I'm not entirely crazy after all :)
[15:44] <Flameeyes> agaffney, on the site
[15:44] <Flameeyes> agaffney, we have some icons that are not exactly legal (modified versions of windows's software, lgpl-licensed icons not respecting it ...
[15:44] <agaffney> ah
[15:45] <kingtaco|laptop> I think neysx is trying to fix the icons
[15:45] <kingtaco|laptop> he posted a bug for a change to the xmlcheck script on cvs
[15:45] <kingtaco|laptop> Kugelfang, maybe you can do that
[15:45] <Kugelfang> i have no clue about cvs
[15:45] <Kugelfang> i'm an svn man
[15:45] <kingtaco|laptop> ok
[15:45] <Kugelfang> and i think pylon already did it
[15:46] <kingtaco|laptop> well someone will do it
[15:46] <kingtaco|laptop> and I bet neysx will clean it up
[15:46] <Kugelfang> 19:36 <+CIA-1> pylon * CVSROOT/checkxml.pl: Added ico to the allowed filetypes; bug #154544.
[15:46] <Kugelfang> 19:36 < jeeves> CIA-1: https://bugs.gentoo.org/154544 nor, P2, All, neysx@gentoo.org->infra-bugs@gentoo.org, NEW, pending, Please add *.ico to the list of allowed file types
[15:46] <Flameeyes> kingtaco|laptop, the quick fix is to remove them for now, but the issue is still open since last year
[15:46] * Kugelfang goes to the party now
[15:46] <Kugelfang> see you guys
[15:47] <Flameeyes> night danny
[15:47] <kingtaco|laptop> see ya danny
[15:47] <Flameeyes> closing here then, who's going to put log and summary?
[15:47] <kloeri> later Kugelfang
[15:47] <kloeri> Flameeyes: me
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[15:50] <kloeri> spb-: meeting just finished, thanks and enjoy your evening :)
[15:50] <spb-> sorry if i be late, beu got us lost
[15:50] --- bonsaikitten is now known as AmazingPudding