path: root/meeting-logs/20150311.txt

[19:37:12] <dilfridge> halali
[19:37:50] <johu> !herd kde
[19:37:51] <willikins> (kde) alexxy, creffett, dastergon, dilfridge, jcallen, jmbsvicetto, jmorgan, johu, kensington, mrueg, mschiff, patrick, reavertm, scarabeus, thev00d00
[19:37:56] <johu> 1) roll call
[19:38:01] <kensington> hi
[19:38:02] <dilfridge> yo
[19:38:08] <johu> lo
[19:38:43] <dilfridge> more than one, so we have a quorum
[19:38:51] <johu> mrueg?
[19:39:06] <scarabeus> well i am around but not much of an use :P
[19:39:24] <dilfridge> yep totally useless :P
[19:39:58] <johu> do we agree on start?
[19:41:07] <kensington> probably nobody else will turn up at this point
[19:41:29] <johu> hm
[19:42:21] <johu> i am undecided
[19:42:32] <dilfridge> decidedly undecided?
[19:43:01] <johu> 4 ppl out of >10 is not that good
[19:43:03] <mrueg> available.
[19:43:06] <johu> ok 5
[19:43:10] <johu> lets start
[19:43:14] <johu> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:KDE/Meeting/2015-03
[19:43:18] <johu> agenda is here
[19:43:34] <johu> 2) team lead election
[19:43:58] <johu> nominations please
[19:44:09] <kensington> i nominate johu
[19:44:14] -*- johu nominates dilfridge
[19:44:16] <mrueg> I nominate kensington
[19:44:20] <dilfridge> no
[19:44:31] <dilfridge> I already have too many jobs
[19:44:31] <scarabeus> lets have johu keep his fun
[19:44:33] <scarabeus> :D
[19:44:56] <johu> i accept, but keep the baby in mind which makes me sometime unavailable in the year
[19:45:54] <johu> anybody else to nominate?
[19:46:45] <scarabeus> well looks like you won
[19:46:49] <johu> ok nominees: kensingtion / johu
[19:46:54] <scarabeus> ah missed kensington ;P
[19:47:02] <johu> please vote
[19:47:11] <kensington> i vote johu
[19:47:19] <mrueg> kensington 
[19:47:32] -*- johu abstain
[19:48:12] <johu> dilfridge /scarabeus?
[19:48:21] <scarabeus> johu: if ya want lets keep you the hat
[19:48:49] -*- dilfridge abstains
[19:49:05] <dilfridge> so that's 2:1 for johu
[19:49:15] <johu> so its 2 - 1 with 2 abstains
[19:49:42] <johu> 3) Plasma 5 (30 minutes)
[19:49:56] <johu> Please discuss the following aspects
[19:49:56] <johu> Profile, Documentation (Normal, Upgrade guide)
[19:49:56] <johu> Versioning scheme upstream breakage (e.g. baloo, kfilemetadata)
[19:49:56] <johu> User settings migration
[19:50:09] <johu> Please vote and discuss on tree inclusion target (5.2.x, 5.3.x)
[19:50:09] <johu> News item
[19:50:09] <johu> Masked vs Testin
[19:50:34] -*- dilfridge is rather uninformed
[19:51:01] <kensington> it works fine, let's push it to ~arch 
[19:51:16] <karolherbst> what's the problem with the version scheme breakage?
[19:51:26] <karolherbst> automagic deps inside eclass?
[19:51:31] <johu> for me the versioning scheme breakage is a ~ blocker
[19:51:45] <kensington> why?
[19:52:09] <johu> maybe upstream deiceds to lower the version to plasma general version back
[19:52:33] <kensington> i doubt it, it's released
[19:52:57] <scarabeus> yea they kinda fuck with the version a lot, at suse it is just set with list of pkgs and their expected versions, because they change it on the fly
[19:52:58] <karolherbst> It would be both insane and annoying
[19:52:59] <johu> the problem those packages should be a framework
[19:53:05] <scarabeus> like sudden apperance of konsole etc
[19:53:22] <kensington> i guess they will be moved back to frameworks at some point
[19:53:29] <karolherbst> I already thought, that both packages would be moved inside frameworks because of this
[19:54:07] <johu> karolherbst: those not in sync with the rest of frameworks release
[19:54:39] <johu> i am fine with masked to tree but ~ is a no go until this is solved
[19:54:46] <karolherbst> but this is a minor problem, isn't it? They could be just released as 5.9 the next time if they decided to do it
[19:55:18] <kensington> johu: what problem does it actually cause us?
[19:56:13] <johu> kensington:  we should get an agreement on this with upstream to fix their release process
[19:56:27] <kensington> they didn't do it intentionally
[19:56:29] <johu> if this happens now, this could happen in the future too
[19:57:31] <karolherbst> but what does this mean? Does anything changes at all or could it be just ignored? Where is the "more work" caused by this?
[19:58:01] <kensington> i don't see what it changes for us
[19:59:24] <kensington> obviously we would prefer consistent numbers but we can only work with what we're given
[19:59:44] <johu> if you think the current releases are reliable then dont mind
[20:00:31] <kensington> i think it was even moved to frameworks namespace upstream after the changes, then the licensing issue was realised
[20:00:51] <johu> yes but why raising the version number intentionally
[20:01:22] <dilfridge> didnt they want to adapt the version number to frameworks and only later realized that there is a license problem?
[20:01:28] <kensington> yes
[20:01:57] <johu> i thought the reason was dev ego
[20:02:11] <johu> and then keep it in the broken way
[20:02:26] <karolherbst> I also heard the license thing
[20:02:28] <kensington> afaik they didn't want to revert it since it was already released
[20:02:47] <dilfridge> dev ego, wait, are we talking about baloo?
[20:02:57] <johu> yes vhanda
[20:03:18] -*- dilfridge very narrowly avoided talking to him at fosdem
[20:03:57] <johu> can we please ask upstream via ml first what they are planning for 5.3?
[20:04:08] <kensington> there's porting work away from xapian to avoid the license issue too
[20:04:46] <karolherbst> I want to know who came up with this dev ego thing :/ and how anybody could believe this
[20:05:48] <johu> ok if nobody objects i will write to release team ml in the next days to clarify on plasma release process
[20:06:52] <karolherbst> kensington: there is lucene branch already with some commits
[20:06:58] <kensington> yeah
[20:07:16] <johu> kensington: whats the state of the new plasma profile?
[20:07:32] <kensington> worksforme
[20:08:08] <kensington> it sets all the minimal use flags and then some
[20:08:09] <johu> general wiki article/upgrade guide/user settings?
[20:08:33] <kensington> upgrade guide has seen some small user revisions but nothing major yet
[20:09:11] <kensington> for any user with meta packages the upgrade should be pretty smooth
[20:10:01] * dilfridge has changed topic for #gentoo-meetings to: "Gentoo Meetings | KDE team meeting"
[20:10:02] <karolherbst> "User settings migration" can anything be done here anyway?
[20:10:14] <kensington> i want to add a little more text about unresolvable blockers (eg. user has some plasmoid dependong on plasma:4 in world file)
[20:10:16] <karolherbst> does anybody tried to move all old config files into new locations?
[20:10:26] <kensington> config migration should happen automagically
[20:10:37] <johu> frameworks provides  at least config migration but i dont know if they use it in plasma
[20:10:59] <kensington> a lot of it won't translate cleanly anyway
[20:11:38] <genstorm> there was a blog post partly about kwallet migration, citing you needed kwallet:4 and :5 at the same time
[20:11:46] <johu> do we need a plasma-meta package?
[20:11:59] <karolherbst> will user bother much if they have to configure their desktop again?
[20:12:19] <karolherbst> genstorm: are you sure?
[20:12:20] <kensington> somebody can try to copy the config to see if it works and document it, not much we can do beyond it
[20:12:30] <kensington> plasma-meta++
[20:12:51] <karolherbst> I would suggest plasma-meta and plasma-minimal-meta
[20:13:00] <kensington> plasma-minimal-meta = plasma-desktop
[20:13:08] <karolherbst> I see
[20:13:35] <kensington> it pulls in the desktop/workspace and not much else
[20:13:36] <johu> we could provide a login-manager use flag like in :4
[20:14:10] <karolherbst> mhh
[20:14:10] <kensington> yeah
[20:14:16] <karolherbst> I think it may be too messy currently
[20:14:18] <genstorm> karolherbst: not sure if this is still the case. http://lamarque-lvs.blogspot.co.at/2014/11/installing-plasma-5-on-gentoo-linux.html
[20:14:19] <karolherbst> sddm is messy
[20:14:27] <karolherbst> and lightdm[kde] doesn't work reliable
[20:14:35] <johu> sddm works for me 
[20:14:43] <karolherbst> not if you have consolekit
[20:14:50] <karolherbst> no sleep, no other stuff
[20:14:55] <karolherbst> its messy
[20:14:55] <johu> legacy :P
[20:14:58] <kensington> maybe move the bluerooth/networkmanager flag from plasmsa-desktop to plasma-meta
[20:15:12] <johu> yeah
[20:15:14] <johu> ++
[20:15:15] <kensington> consolekit and no sleep isn't sddm-specific
[20:15:32] <karolherbst> mhhh
[20:15:48] <genstorm> same with lightdm, with openrc I need to change startkde script to get shutdown functions
[20:15:54] <johu> kensington: do we have  a general plasma guide?
[20:15:55] <karolherbst> I only know that I had big issues with sddm, and lightdm[gtk] seems t work fine for me. I had issues at the beggining though with lightdm
[20:16:01] <kensington> i keep meaning to follow up on larmarque's findings
[20:16:14] <dilfridge> so what blocks upgrade? i.e., are there kde4 applications that a) cannot be installed at the same time with plasma5, and b) have no replacement yet?
[20:16:34] <kensington> johu: i think there's some basic info on [[KDE]] but never got finished due to bikeshedding
[20:16:45] <mrueg> genstorm: what did you need exactly to change?
[20:17:00] <kensington> anything that depends on plasma:4 will block upgrade since it's not coinstallable
[20:17:13] <johu> i would create [[Plasma]] and include it in the [[KDE]] article
[20:17:13] <mrueg> dilfridge: many missing plasmoids
[20:17:15] <karolherbst> kde USE flag is also an issue
[20:17:26] <dilfridge> I dont care so much about plasmoids
[20:17:33] <mrueg> dilfridge: users do
[20:17:33] <genstorm> mrueg: remove kwrapper5 from ksmserver call
[20:17:38] <dilfridge> :/
[20:17:58] <dilfridge> mrueg: normally you have sagrotan for that
[20:18:00] <kensington> if they want full range of plasmoids they shouldn't upgrade yet
[20:18:24] <genstorm> also taken from lamarque
[20:18:27] <kensington> i wrote in the upgrade guide that it's not a full feature replacement yet
[20:19:50] <johu> can we summarize the "before move to tree" todos: versioning scheme clarification, plasma general guide, meta package -> news item
[20:19:55] <kensington> i suggest we wait to johu to clarify his release concerns, add the meta package, polish docs a little, then add plasma to ~arch
[20:20:03] <kensington> yeah
[20:20:04] <johu> anithing else we have todo?
[20:20:36] <kensington> i think that's it
[20:20:47] <karolherbst> there might be some packages with kde USE flags which pulls in KDE4 packages, which are also available in kf5 or plasma5 (kde apps 5)
[20:21:23] <johu> ok then we need to agree on a process for tree introduction
[20:21:25] <kensington> i'll check revdeps, probably most is kde-apps
[20:21:32] <karolherbst> q4wine uses kdesu for example and winetricks kdialog
[20:22:00] <karolherbst> kensington: q4wine[kde] => kdesu (frameworks)
[20:22:25] <mrueg> johu: add to the todo list https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo-portage-rsync-mirror/pull/65 
[20:22:29] <johu> i dont want to have it ~ directly, my proposal would be masked to the tree (announced in news item), 90 days masked phase and then ~
[20:23:12] <kensington> there's no chance of accidental upgrade
[20:23:19] <johu> dont get me wrong i dont want to have the gnome endless masking phase, but i dont want to repeat the kde3 -> kde 4 drama
[20:24:34] <johu> other proposals  for the process?
[20:24:56] <mrueg> unmask and keep it in overlay 
[20:25:35] <johu> i guess we have more users with tree only
[20:26:39] <johu> more testing will be done with tree inclusion
[20:28:20] <mrueg> and per package commits
[20:28:43] <kensington> is there any point discussing apps now then?
[20:29:07] <johu> its seperated from the desktop env
[20:29:24] <johu> so i want to vote first on the process we and then the target
[20:29:37] <johu> and then we can move to applications
[20:30:53] <kensington> i'll read the backlog tomorrow, good luck
[20:30:54] -*- kensington out
[20:31:05] <johu> hm
[20:31:14] <mrueg> i need to leave now, too. 
[20:31:39] -*- mrueg wanted to get back home earlier today..
[20:31:49] <johu> hm fine
[20:32:22] <johu> dilfridge: how it was done with kde4?
[20:32:35] <johu> scarabeus: ^
[20:36:17] <dilfridge> hmm?
[20:36:31] <dilfridge> kde3 -> kde4 was before my time
[20:36:57] <johu> realy?
[20:37:05] <dilfridge> in gentoo yes
[20:37:15] <dilfridge> biab
[20:38:01] <johu> so mrueg and kensington left i guess we need to continue tomorrow?!
[20:38:18] <johu> scarabeus doesnt react
[20:38:38] <johu> i dont want to decide it with 2 devs present
[20:42:09] <johu> meeting postponed ,continue with 3)
[20:47:29] <dilfridge> sorry urgent call of nature
[00:00:00] - {Tageswechsel: Donnerstag, 12. März 2015}
[02:54:05] <-> josef64_ heißt jetzt josef64
[07:43:25] <-> dlan_ heißt jetzt dlan
[08:39:30] <scarabeus> johu: sorry i went to take care of my parrots as it was getting late
[08:39:51] <scarabeus> johu: the kde3->4 drama wont happen
[08:40:07] <scarabeus> with kde4 migration issue was not packaging but rather quality of kde4 at the time :)